Galactic Civilizations: some numbers for PQ picks

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Do you still think GalCiv 1 is fun even with GalCiv II out?

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1- Yes

2- No

some numbers for PQ picks

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by Citizen Even-Stupid-Can-Play-TBSs - 6/5/2003 7:38:29 AM

It looked rather useless when choosing racial picks, so I've decided to calculate if advantages of 5% (5 picks) and 7% (8 picks) worth the price.
Here it is. Note that I post numbers just in rows. 1st is starting PQ, second is with racial pick 5%, third with 7%, following in the same order with modifiers by soil enrichment and habitat improvment. So:

ctl 5% 7% ctl+ 5%+ 7%+ ctl++ 5%++ 7%++

13 13,65 13,91 14,3 14,95 15,21 15,6 16,25 16,51

14 14,70 14,98 15,4 16,10 16,38 16,8 17,50 17,78

15 15,75 16,05 16,5 17,25 17,55 18,0 18,75 19,05

16 16,80 17,12 17,6 18,40 18,72 19,2 20,00 20,32

17 17,85 18,19 18,7 19,55 19,89 20,4 21,25 21,59

18 18,90 19,36 19,8 20,70 21,06 21,6 22,50 22,86

19 19,95 20,33 20,9 21,85 22,23 22,8 23,75 24,13

20 21,00 21,40 22,0 23,00 23,40 24,0 25,00 25,4

I'm not 100% sure but I think that all numbers are rounding down. In this case extra 2% for 3 picks is bit extreme price. I assume that PQ improvments will be built at first opportunity, so PQ5% will increase all planets with PQ 16+ by 1 grade compare to unmodified, while PQ7% will add +1 to PQ for all planets with PQ 15 and 19 (compare to PQ5%).

I would use extra 3 picks for something else, but that's up to you.

P.S. Any objections are welcome.

#1 by Citizen Henrik Sthl - 6/5/2003 11:10:53 AM

The numbers do round down.

I generally take economy, trade´or (my favorite) speed enhancements instad. I agree that the extra 2% seem overpriced, but on the other hand one single raise in PQ makes a huge difference and raising all PQ15 planets one step may make all the difference in the world.

#2 by Citizen tetleytea - 6/5/2003 11:52:22 AM

Since the AI gets a PQ bonus, I'd just assume take over his systems and get his PQ bonus. Take some Pop Growth and Influence bonuses for that purpose instead of PQ. And then I'll load Colony Ships/Transports and shuffle around population. This has the added benefit that your front-line systems are productive, and Influential.

#3 by Citizen WasabeXX - 6/5/2003 7:11:08 PM

Actually, I'm pretty sure they don't round down. If your planet would be 20.5 PQ, it would show as 21. . .

Also, the AI doesn't get PQ bonus, and if it did choose that as it's pick, then it goes away when they leave the planet.

And finally, remember that PQ determines how much tax income you get and manufacturing power of a planet, so in the beginning a higer PQ planet, even if it's just a little bit higher, makes a big difference. It increases not only growth, but also morale, economy, and production.

So when you choose PQ bonus, you are really getting a morale bonus, income bonus, growth bonus, and production bonus. That's why it costs that much.

#4 by Diplomat Ralegh - 6/5/2003 11:37:07 PM

(Here are some quibbles in case anyone is interested. I agree with the thesis - PQ is very good - just want to explain some of the ways it really works.)

(

increases not only growth

FYI: I have collected numbers till I am blue in the face, and there just aint any direct relationship between PQ and population growth.

Pop growth (as a percentage) seems mainly affected by morale (+3% for morale over 55%, and + another 3% for morale = 100%). Morale is hugely affected by PQ, so there is a second order impact.

PQ determines how much tax income you get

A little. You get cash from the PQ and cash from the population. While both get reduced because of the tax rate, only the latter gets amplified by your economy. PQ is real important to income in the beginning game, but marginal in the late game.

manufacturing power

No direct impact (ie. no increase based on PQ). Instead, higher PQs have higher limits for when waste kicks in - so only important on highly developed planets.

#5 by Diplomat Ralegh - 6/5/2003 11:45:28 PM

If I read the table correctly, Even-Stupid-Can-Play-TBSs is saying that after taking effect of soil and habitat:
5% is better than nothing for PQ13, 14, and 16+ - just not for PQ15.
7% is better than 5% only on PQ15 and 19.

Now, what is the relative incidence of PQ15 worlds?

#6 by Diplomat Arturus Magi - 6/6/2003 3:15:10 AM

Actually, I'm pretty sure they don't round down. If your planet would be 20.5 PQ, it would show as 21. . .

PQ does round down. Colonize a class 8 planet with no inherent bonus and build Soil Enhancement (PQ 8+.9=8). Colonize anything below class 20 with the 5% bonus (19+.95=19).

Posted via Stardock Central

#7 by Citizen Even-Stupid-Can-Play-TBSs - 6/6/2003 9:40:44 AM

I've made a mistake when said that +2% worth 3 extra picks. 5% worth 3 picks, 7% cost 8 picks. 5 points for 2%. I do not see reason to take 7% at all. 5 piks spent on morale and economy will do better IF PQ-affected calculations use whole numbers.

Lets hope Frogboy will clarify this.

#8 by Citizen Mikelangelo - 6/6/2003 10:46:23 AM

I'm hoping I'm not wasting my PQ points.... but considering I colonize 12, 13, and 14s it helps in the longrun.

#9 by Citizen tetleytea - 6/6/2003 11:17:38 AM

You colonize 12's?

#10 by Citizen Even-Stupid-Can-Play-TBSs - 6/6/2003 1:26:17 PM

Sorry to said that, Miguel Suau, but I think that you waste 'presious' points for extra +2%

Update to the numbers above:

11 11.55 11.77 12.1 12.65 12.87 13.2 13.75 13.97

12 12.60 12.84 13.2 13.80 14.04 14.4 15.00 15.24

#11 by Citizen Mikelangelo - 6/7/2003 11:14:53 AM

Yeah I colonize 12s... they end up 15 or better with Soil and Hab. techs so that's my cut off.

Seems to help 'cause unlike the AI, I don't know where the yellow stars are.

#12 by Citizen mavxpsgx - 6/8/2003 12:09:06 AM

Research Stellar Cartography and you will know where all the yellow stars are

#13 by Veteran Staffa - 6/9/2003 9:32:05 AM

PQ has a dramatic effect on base production, research
and morale.

To take the colonization events as an example.

a 40% increase in PQ will net you more new research
then a 40% research bonus would. It will net you
nearly as much new production as a 40% production
increase would. It will net you a signifigant amount
of morale, and it will net you an improvement to your
tax base.

The morale bonus should again be noted as this
controls pop growth and also improves tax revenue.

Also, as pointed out earlier, in the long run, higher
pq means less waste on fully developed worlds.

The next time you build the 'Terraformer' watch what
happens to your overall income, on some larger maps, I
have had my income go up more per turn then the actual
wonder costs to build(with the mitresoft leasing plan)

If that wasnt clear, it costs 1660 to purchase plus
about 40 per turn. Im saying my per turn income has
gone up over 2000 per turn with this wonder.

#14 by Citizen LeegleechN - 6/9/2003 11:07:22 PM

I colonize 13 and up (before improvements of course". The
AI never colonizes below 15, so I can nab planets within striking distance from theirs.

#15 by Diplomat Ralegh - 6/10/2003 12:18:05 AM

From the other point of view, after the colonization rush, anything less that PQ20 (after PQ bonuses, soil and habitat) ends up being a constructor-builder for me, not a warship-maker (I seperate my planets into two groups: those who can produce fast enough to consdier for warships, and the rest).

Conquering an AI planet that is under PQ20, I am just as likely to destroy it as keep it. (Over PQ20, I usually keep it.) - Yeah, I know, this hurts my scores.

#16 by Citizen Even-Stupid-Can-Play-TBSs - 6/10/2003 9:08:14 AM

Staffa, with all respect to you, we are talking about +2%, not +40%. I wouldn't mind to be penalized to get +40% PQ. If game uses decimals in calculations, +2%PQ for 5 picks could be useful. Otherwise it's rather wasted spendings. That's only my opinion, of course (and I haven't played on maso as till now). I would go for +5%PQ+1 speed instead of +7%PQ.

#17 by Veteran Staffa - 6/10/2003 9:47:37 AM

I dont use pq bonuses at all, im just saying PQ is
very powerful.

#18 by Citizen Keith LaMothe - 6/10/2003 11:33:20 PM

5 piks spent on morale and economy will do better IF PQ-affected calculations use whole numbers.

Economy is a good pick, but I'm under the impression that the morale pick isn't so useful since the max you can get out of it is 20% or something and building an enteretainment network on every planet equates to a 200% bonus ... or am I wrong?

#19 by Citizen farstryder - 6/11/2003 2:17:20 AM

reading this board, i'm thinking that when they toned down PQ, Stardock did right. consider this: we do not agree on PQ, whether its worth it, which to choose (+5% or +7%) if any, and to what extent of either a boon or a waste it is.

before the changes, EVERY game i played, i picked PQ, as did most players seeking an obvious advantage. Now that the bonuses have been neutered, players choose PQ only if it benefits their particular strategies.

(belated) kudos to Stardock for a good fix to a potentially dangerous imbalance in the game.

#20 by Citizen Even-Stupid-Can-Play-TBSs - 6/11/2003 7:01:52 AM

Personally, I do like +5%PQ. Cheap and gives +1PQ for all planets I colonize.

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