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Do you still think GalCiv 1 is fun even with GalCiv II out?
758 votes
1- Yes
2- No


making money as a moneylender
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by Citizen oPseudonym - 8/17/2003 12:58:18 AM

Or, how to make 8% interest or more on your galciv galactic bank balance

one part of this game I don't understand is how the AI decides when an offer of cash payments over time is worthwhile. For example, why is it that the AI will sometimes have no preference between paying you $300 upfront, or $600 spread out over 4 years, or $700 spread out over 10 years?

In an earlier game I was playing, the AI actually refused a trade where I offered $100 for their $35 -- i.e., they refused a gift of $65

In my current game, on level 'painful', I have tried to maximize my negotiating skills and now have +150% diplomacy, including full starting game bonus and diplomatic translators. In the early game I made money selling tech at inflated prices; not I just sit back and collect interest payments -- averages about 8%. Perhaps there is a way to employ the cash more productively that will get 8%, but I haven't found one

I think this is a good way to make money from other civs without having to give them techs... but still, the way the AI figures out what interest rate to use is a total mystery to me and makes no sense.

Now, in a perfect universe, the civs could just issue bonds, and anyone could bid on them... but that may be too much to hope for






                
#1  by Citizen Christopher Cain - 8/26/2003 1:11:41 PM

Okay, oPseudonym,

Can you explain to those of us who have no clue what this refers to, HOW one goes about collecting interest from other races?

Thanks.

      
#2  by Citizen Gert Meyer - 8/26/2003 3:51:34 PM

Well, basically when doing diplomatic trading, cash can be traded over 0 to X turns. (Yes, I know X is finite, but I can't remember what it is right now. Something like 50 turns I think.) This is what is referred to as "Tribute" in the economy screen.

So let's say you trade some tech to the AI and you want cash. You could choose to have maybe 200bc now (0 turns), or 120bc now and again next turn (1 turn), or 90bc now and over the next two turns, etc.

Basically this means you've lent the AI 200bc in exchange for 240bc by next turn or 270bc by the turn after the next.

By extension you could even trade the AI 200bc cash now instead of the tech thereby becoming a "true" moneylender.



                 Posted via Stardock Central
#3  by Citizen Christopher Cain - 8/26/2003 5:58:23 PM

Oh, okay.

I've been doing it with Techs for cash over time + Influence. I didn't realize you could do it with cash on both ends of the transaction.

And so oPseudonym's reference to his "interest rate" is an imputed rate of return based on the future value of the cash realized through the transaction.

Very cool.

Thanks.



      
#4  by Citizen Lothmorg the Black - 8/26/2003 6:42:24 PM

I've never thought of that.
Thanks!



           Posted via Stardock Central
#5  by Veteran citahellion - 8/26/2003 10:29:43 PM

I have noticed that the AI will generally pay almost twice as much over a 20-turn period than they will up front, i.e. if they're willing to pay 200 outright for a tech, then they'll be willing to pay somewhere between 18 and 20 per turn for 20 turns.


                    
#6  by Ambassador Ray the Wanderer - 8/26/2003 10:46:34 PM

That's the present value of money concept. A billion credits today is worth more than a billion credits after 20 turns. The assumption being you could invest the billion credits and make some in the 20 turns. Don't think we earn interest on our treasury in the game though.



                         Posted via Stardock Central
#7  by Citizen LDiCesare - 8/27/2003 6:59:43 AM

Don't think we earn interest on our treasury in the game though.


Now that would be a fun idea.

                      
#8  by Citizen General Tacticus - 8/28/2003 4:03:21 AM


Now that would be a fun idea.


Fun but dangerous. It can fairly easily lead to abuse. Just imagine in a gigantic game, being able to just press turn, watch the treasury go up and up and up, and ending up buying the whole galaxy just wih the interest I don't think we want to encourage that strategy.

If you want to earn some interest on your money, you must work for it : invest it wisely, and watch your investments closely. For exemple, buying a Galactic Stock Exchange to increase your economic base, or perhaps a fleet of Dreadnoughts and a few Combat Transports to pursue an "external growth" strategy, or... well, I think you get my meaning : play the game

          
#9  by Veteran vincible - 8/28/2003 10:35:11 AM

Yikes, it's already too easy to get a vast treasury.

                        
#10  by Citizen oPseudonym - 8/28/2003 5:53:40 PM

The money system in galciv is a very disjointed; for example, it's just about never worth your while to take cash up front instead of in several installments.

If you have a mediocre diplo rating, a computer will refuse a deal where you offer 100bc for 50bc -- i.e. a net gift of 50bc

On masochistic the AI rarely gives you much of any cash under any circumstances -- I think they just divide what they would normally give you by a large, constant factor (maybe 10 or 20)

An interest rate you earn on your treasury I think would only be really dangerous if it was significantly greater than you could make using the 'republican' investment plan(low taxes, big military, invade weaker civs...) or the 'democrat' one (social spending and cultural influence)





                
#11  by Citizen Lothmorg the Black - 8/28/2003 10:12:36 PM

One thing that bothers me is the ability to abuse the new minors in Maso. Actually, everyone, for that matter. If you set up a nice juicy trade with someone for a long time, then destroy them the next turn, you still get tribute for the next 50 turns or so (from a dead race!).

Why is this? Am I just completely missing something here?
Is this something that should be "fixed"?

Anyway, my 2bc.



           Posted via Stardock Central
#12  by Ambassador Ray the Wanderer - 8/28/2003 11:23:25 PM

One thing that bothers me is the ability to abuse the new minors in Maso.


Used to be worse. Previously we could exploit Alexians for cash and you know they always start the game so it was a "Find the Alexians!" game for Maso players. Then SD stopped it. I see the new minors as a nice bonus for us as we don't always get the new minor event early when they are the most useful. In the late game, the exploit also becomes less useful.

I was lucky in my last Maso game in that I got the Aidians in mid game. They don't start with as much money as the Carinoids and Alexians (only 500bc) and I only had a few TGs so couldn't really get much out of them. They also plunged very quickly into huge debts. I gave them one of my PQ20 planet that was close to flipping to the Dregs but they never managed to go back into positive.

So I don't see these new minors as being too unbalancing. Now the Draginol event is a different kettle of fish with their 150,000bcs at start.



                         Posted via Stardock Central
#13  by Veteran vincible - 8/29/2003 12:50:04 AM

Ray, what you do is give them a gift of 5000 BC, then go to war with them that turn and demand your 5000 BC for 50 months. Works beautifully. A new minor is an auto-win if you do it right.

                        
#14  by Citizen LDiCesare - 8/29/2003 10:28:21 AM

vincible, now that's evil.
I tend to give the new minors all the TGs I have plus whatever crap I can send along with whenever they appear. I then offer to go to war with them to a major who doesn't like me (telling the Drengins you are attacking the vegans can raise their opinion from hostile to cool, which is always welcome, and costs nothing).

                      
#15  by Veteran vincible - 8/29/2003 10:46:56 AM

Oh, I forgot the *really* evil part. Sometimes you can't declare war by attacking them, because they're too far away, and you can't declare war by gifting a declaration to another major, because once you've given the minor your cash you raise your relations to friendly and the option no longer appears in the Diplomatic screen. So to be safe, you gift a starfighter or something along with the 5000 or whatever BC, so you can blow it away later that turn and be sure of declaring war on that minor before any of the other AIs gets to it.

                        
#16  by Citizen LDiCesare - 8/29/2003 5:58:17 PM

Definitely wicked.

                      
#17  by Ambassador Ray the Wanderer - 8/29/2003 7:58:06 PM

Notice how the ones with the good smileys are often the most wicked.

eg. Pure good Cotal liquidating allies with Terror Stars.

                        
#18  by Citizen Lothmorg the Black - 8/30/2003 5:24:31 PM

You have to watch that Cotal, she's an "evil" one.



           Posted via Stardock Central
#19  by Citizen Serafim - 8/31/2003 5:10:45 PM

actually i have made the best bargain ever in my current game on painfull : i have sold avatar tech to the drengin for 42 bc for 900 months.ofcourse i haben't got the time to collect all the money

#20  by Veteran Black_Shade - 9/1/2003 1:02:27 PM

actually i have made the best bargain ever in my current game on painfull : i have sold avatar tech to the drengin for 42 bc for 900 months.ofcourse i haben't got the time to collect all the money


just wait tell the dreginol (sp) show up, or a cult finds some dread lords. The minor race they create starts out with about 150k in cash. Give them a crappy ship (a corvette that you still have lying around), and blow it up. Then ask for a peace treaty for all their money and their planet. In my current game, i received 150k BC for 400 months. I think im set economically

                        
#21  by Ambassador Ray the Wanderer - 9/1/2003 7:15:33 PM

Watch out for the dreaded anomalous flag, Black Shade. It flags you when you have too much cash apparently.

                        
#22  by Citizen Lothmorg the Black - 9/2/2003 12:41:36 AM

I've seen quite a few posts where people are getting x# BC for 50+ months. I can't seem to get above 50 months max. Is there something that I am completely missing here? I'm using version 1.05.



           Posted via Stardock Central
#23  by Ambassador Ray the Wanderer - 9/2/2003 12:51:13 AM

I'm not sure about 900 months. I thought 100 months was the max.

Lothmorg, for some weird reason, the slider only allows up to 50 months. But it is possible to type 100 months into the box and get that. I don't find a difference when I increase it above 100.



                         Posted via Stardock Central
#24  by Citizen Lothmorg the Black - 9/2/2003 12:22:21 PM

Thanks Ray! I'll have to try that when I get home.



           Posted via Stardock Central
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