Galactic Civilizations: Metaverse Scoring Audit

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Do you still think GalCiv 1 is fun even with GalCiv II out?

758 votes

1- Yes

2- No

Metaverse Scoring Audit

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#125 by Veteran Grand_Admiral_Thrawn - 6/28/2004 10:35:44 AM

I'm sorry, but mods are part of the fun. IMHO, mods should be allowed, but perhaps if there is a way to check for only the Stardock mods, that would work. But I like playing with mods.

#126 by Ambassador Solitair - 6/28/2004 10:59:35 AM

Mods are fun, but they allow so much abuse. In a system where winning or being number one wasn't important this would never be an issue. But the metaverse is all about being in that first screen of top 25. it's reinforced every time you click on the metaverse screen. It's all that is ever talked about. With all that pressure is it any wonder that people will use mods to make their games easier, or to speed the game up, or to maximise the score.

There is no way to protect from abuse if the players can modify the game files. Either a metaverse submission has hard coded game files or else the metaverse itself needs changing. I personally would prefer the latter. I don't like a metaverse which is so heavily focussed on being top 25 and then gives you all the tools you ever need to bend the rules to help you get there.

Paul.

#127 by Citizen Weyrleader - 6/28/2004 12:04:29 PM

mumble mumble
[Message Edited]

#128 by Citizen Weyrleader - 6/28/2004 12:04:45 PM

it any wonder that people will use mods to make their games easier

I find that mods make it harder, as they add things to do that take time. Time is the number one issue in the Metaverse. Your score in the Meta is directly related to how much time you spend on a game, and, therefore, how many games you can play in a give amount of time.

Mods make the game more fun. They provide some benefit, but the AI also benefits. Can you skew the benefit, maybe. Is that cheating? Depends upon who make the rules. If you want a game that guraenttes no cheating according to anyones rules, you have to eliminate any chagnes to the game and be able to detect any changes to the game.

#129 by Veteran the 3rd child - 6/28/2004 1:11:20 PM

actually the right mods make the game way faster, your playing with the wrong mods if it makes it slower...

#130 by Citizen Weyrleader - 6/28/2004 1:29:46 PM

actually the right mods make the game way faster

I can play a standard game in less than an hour. with mods, I can make it 10-20 minutes faster, but not much more. That amounts to about 10-20 moves, maybe a few more. I am not saying the mods don't make it faster, but there are more things to research with mods than withoug them. This takes time and it may not be worth it in terms of the Meta. In terms of playing for fun, definately worth it.

#131 by Veteran GASherbert - 6/28/2004 3:17:23 PM

your playing with the wrong mods if it makes it slower...

I would disagree. Fun mods add enough to the game that it may take longer. Not all mods or people are after quicker and higher scoring games.

#132 by Veteran the 3rd child - 6/28/2004 7:22:57 PM

huh? how is that disagreeing i said the wrong mods make it slower you just said fun mods may make it take longer, i didn't say all people are after a quicker game.

#133 by Diplomat Blue_Steel - 6/29/2004 4:59:25 AM

All that can be done realisticly is being done... no matter what you do to make a game untouchable it is always touchable.. and especially if it has high score lists or transfered data...

Stardock is doing the right thing.. catch those who abuse the system knowingly and dealing with them.. You do the crime you do the time... no use arguing about it... if / when you get caught it shouldn't help if you play inoscent..

If stardock starts being soft then the metaverse is gone.. they need to stand their ground and do what they say that they will.. this way it'll catch some ppl and hopefully deter others from trying as theys seen what'll happen to them when they get caught

Mods or no mods ... it looks to me now that stardock hasa ample ways to check their data for integridy.. (nothing is ever perfect)..

You've just got to ask yourself one question. Do you feel lucky... well... do you... Punk....

#134 by Ambassador Solitair - 6/29/2004 5:54:05 AM

As mentioned above I would rather see a change to the metaverse than a change to mods. The vast majority of people use mods to enhance the enjoyment they get from the game. This is great. Unfortunately, for those that are eager to get top scores and churn out games, mods allow huge quantities of cheese and abuse.

If the metaverse could be changed so that the focus was on the fun and not the score then I think most of these problems would go away. Why should any player automatically see the top 25? Why not show each player their score and the scores above and below them. Even better, why not remember the filters players use to compare their score against similar players. Better yet, why not include daily, weekly and monthly charts of how you position has been changing. All this enhances the fun aspect while ensuring that the vast majority of the metaverse never even see or care who's in the top 25. There will still be cheese. There will still be cheats. But only 24 other people will care!

Paul.

#135 by Citizen Jackey Jackey - 6/29/2004 7:14:49 AM

If I am playing with a good mod pack (there are plenty out there) I tend to find my games lasting a lot longer than without any. I find it interesting to explore how other people view the Galciv universe.

I feel that the emphasis will always be on the top 25 to a certain degree but I agree that there should be more done to make it more inclusive for newer players.

It could be broken down into political parties, game difficulty, how the game is won/lost etc. This would reduce the emphasis on the Top 25 as people attempt to carve out their own niche in the metaverse. Maybe for Galciv 2...

#136 by Citizen damoose - 6/29/2004 11:50:35 AM

It could be broken down into political parties, game difficulty, how the game is won/lost etc

Hummm... Sounds like like altmeta to me.

#137 by Veteran Gerakken - 6/29/2004 1:39:24 PM

Put the stopwatch down, your hands up, and back away slowly!

That is Gerakken's opinion about score mongers. No fun equals no game in my book. So each of my games is an adventure, not a score fest.

Sure, we are a competitive lot and want to do well when compared to others, but sometime a few go a bit overboard. It is sad when it happens, especially in a public manner like our recent incident, but are we going to pick up the pieces and go on.

As for HOW we go on, that is going to be an interesting matter. First, I doubt the Meta is going to change drastically. At least for Galciv 1. Submitting modded games is legit now (as long as they don't fail the secret checks when the game is submitted, of course), and I do not forsee a Meta where any game submitted has to be a stock build with no mods. I could agree with that change and would welcome it, but I do not think there is the inclination at Stardock to run a clean, modless Meta.

We players lack the resources to police our own except by peer pressure. We cannot look at a Meta submission in detail and say "Player X, you cheating weasle! Stop that!" We can only hear through the grapevine whether anyone has a killer technique that may be crossing some personal line we all have between cheese, megacheese that leaves a bad taste in our mouth, and then outright cheating. But we can comment on when something that comes to light seems excessive.

Now, for one who rightfully says, "It is my game and I can do as I will," that is true. For any games off the books, that is. For submitted games there has to be a standard so that people think there is some manner of fairness involved. Right now it is a loose standard. The question is going to be whether we as players are going to tighten our personal standards a bit when it comes to submitted games in order to try and prevent future incidents if the Meta we all know and love does not change its standards?

Just my thoughts for today, my 2 BC to the cause.

#138 by Veteran GASherbert - 6/29/2004 3:50:38 PM

huh? how is that disagreeing i said the wrong mods make it slower you just said fun mods may make it take longer, i didn't say all people are after a quicker game.

I'm sorry if I misunderstood you. 'Wrong' mods means to me that the mods aren't good. I was just pointing out that mods that make the game slower could be classified as 'right' mods.
[Message Edited]

#139 by Veteran Cosmic Fox - 8/31/2004 8:45:54 PM

I will add my two cents to this thread. I have said this before in other threads. I personally feel that the Metaverse should be reset to allow all the new players a chance to be a top player. I have heard from many people who just got the game who do not see any reason to submit games. The top players are so far in the lead it would be impossible to take them out.

Probably no one else agrees with me but this is how I view it.

NeoTech Gaming Network Proudly supporting Stardock as an Affiliate.

Link Galciv is our main focus of course!

#140 by Citizen markos2 - 9/1/2004 5:54:14 AM

Well... I missed all this!

What may I say after all this debate?
That people are different and that we're all playing for satisfying all our different egos - myself included.

I personally NEVER modded any game. Not any. I don't even CTRL-N at starting point.

I have the feeling that if I modify a game, I will be playing something that is different from what the developer wanted.

It's like reading a Shakespeare book and change the character, because you don't like him. Have Romeo and Juliet marry, as you like happy ends.

Like taking a Picasso drawing and change the colours. For sure it may satisfy yourself, but then it's not Picasso anymore. It's just your scribbled lines...

Btw I have the feeling that the gaming industry is relying too much on the modders to hide some lack of depth of their games.
After all, if people spend days in modding their games, the playability of the game increases without any major effort!

Ok - offtopic maybe, but after 140 replies...

#141 by Citizen Wicked One - 9/1/2004 10:34:36 AM

. I personally feel that the Metaverse should be reset to allow all the new players a chance to be a top player. I have heard from many people who just got the game who do not see any reason to submit games. The top players are so far in the lead it would be impossible to take them out.

I agree with that, Desert Fox, I think we should all take this into consideration. I know I'm just a newb who doesn't know anything, who's score is just a tiny little speck compared the people at the top, but I think it's a good idea.

#142 by Citizen Weyrleader - 9/1/2004 11:27:13 AM

Why do both of you want to penelize those who have played well for a long period of time? It is not an even playing field by resetting to zero. What will happen is fewer will play. If that is the objective, then be honest about it. Why not do as suggested in the "fix the Metaverse" thread and make so that all can play and continue to climb the latter within their respective skills.

#143 by Citizen Wicked One - 9/1/2004 2:18:11 PM

Oh darn, I forgot all about that thread! I'm sorry I did not, and would not wan't the metaverse reset to zero. Your right Weyrleader that would be wrong to do that, and I'm sorry I didn't think about what I was saying, like I said I'm just a stupid newb and my input probably doesn't matter.

#144 by Citizen Weyrleader - 9/1/2004 2:27:42 PM

#145 by Citizen Weyrleader - 9/1/2004 2:39:23 PM

who's score is just a tiny little speck compared the people at the top

My score was once a tiny speck compared to the people at the top also. Nothing is stopping you from fighting your way to the top. Enough people quite playing and most are static scores at this point. Your way up is limited to chasing fire hydrants and they don't move very fast. You don't even have to play masso games to get there as GH, Newfy, and others will tell you. In fact recently, some people have advanced without even submitting a game.

Good luck on you journey, hope you make it.

#146 by Veteran Cosmic Fox - 9/1/2004 5:01:45 PM

I sure do not want less people playing I want to see more people playing. Sorry you got the wrong impression.
I know from being co-owner of CDG website and my own now that some new players are discouraged from submitting scores to the Metaverse because some of the Empires will never be push out of the top ranks. (unless they all quit playing)

I for one only play on Gigantic maps, submitting games is always my objective. I only was thinking of new players, and many who are at the top did so by playing the game before it was released to the public. Just an idea is all my statement was.

I will keep on submitting my games for the Empire I belong to. Seems some have taken me wrong.

Why would anyone have an objective of less people playing??

#147 by Citizen Wicked One - 9/1/2004 5:06:04 PM

Thank you very much Weyrleader, that means alot to me! I guess I'm not too bad, but your much better. (Also just to let you know, I've actually been playing this game since it came out; but I just recently got the metaverse to work for me so thats why my score is so little!

)

#148 by Veteran Cosmic Fox - 9/1/2004 5:28:34 PM

It appears we both have low scores. I lost a lot from not playing for a few months. Good luck with your games.

#149 by Citizen Wicked One - 9/1/2004 5:35:01 PM

Thanks Desert Fox I'll try my best, and watch out for me... I might give you some compition!

By the way D.F. I'd wish you good luck, but I'm sure you don't need it. (That was not an insult, just reffering to your skill in that you need not rely on luck!)

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