Well I cannot believe how little disagreement there actually was here. 
I totally misunderstood. I thought we were discussing stoping the registration of a 2nd player, period. So what Wombat wants to do is totally acceptable. Same with all the other people who started over again.
Is there anything that you do differently when changing your name, as apposed to setting up a 2nd player. I thought it was the same procedure.
          
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| Is there anything that you do differently when changing your name, as apposed to setting up a 2nd player. I thought it was the same procedure. |
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It is the same procedure. Register a new email address with your player name and choose a nickname.
What is not currently done that CariElf alludes to is blocking of posting by the first character.
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I'm second in that queue! And thanks PB for the clarification - Fuels Chief posted how to do this in the Starfleet empire thread a couple of days ago, if anyone needs the step-by-step process outlined. Basically, you just leave your old character and go for a new one - as PB says though, the implication is that you dont go back to the old one or have two submitting games at once.
Thanks to CariElf for the advice/clarification.
  
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Carielf I sent you an e-mail asking for my 2 accounts to be merged under mayito8888. I will apprecciate if you can do this for me, thanks. Also please could you check if I have a 3rd account under Mayito888 and if I do can you also merge that one with Mayito8888. Thanks
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| Carielf I sent you an e-mail asking for my 2 accounts to be merged under mayito8888. I will apprecciate if you can do this for me, thanks. Also please could you check if I have a 3rd account under Mayito888 and if I do can you also merge that one with Mayito8888. Thanks |
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I too have emailed you to merge my two accounts, Weyrleader and PassingBye into Weyrleader.
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I hope the merging procedure is not to painful. 
Keep some of Krazy's sacred grass handy just in case Mayito. You might even get one of Krazy's ancient ancestors merge in if your lucky.
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I've sent my e-mail to Carielf requesting a merger of my two players into the Moser profile at her convenience.
Thanks in advance. 
   
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From  Link
#1444 by Diplomat Peace Phoenix - 2/25/2005 3:31:05 AM
Now about Mayito's reactions in various threads, any old members knows that Mayito want to have fun with Role Playing, even if others disagree. You may find threads he has started in page 2 or 3 of the empire forum. His Roleplaying habits have started some flamewars if I remember well. And he has been member in many empires as well as starting some.
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Rolew playing with other accounts is fine too... just not submitting games under it while the other account is submitting games ... it was one of the reasons that Cari allowed multiple accounts for allong with testing mods and finding problems with metaverse sumbition problems)
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Very interesting thread 
But honestly I'm not surprised. This topic was cooking for a long time and it needed some kind of cleaning thunderstorm.
There are different intentions which conflict. Some want to have additional fun by playing roles with different players. Some want to have a fair competition between empires. This needed to be discussed. Nobody should be pissed off when others have other opinions. Don't let discussions ruin your fun.
Stardock is now aware of this topic and that's usually the beginning of an happy end
P.S. I'm very happy that the members of the Star Fleet could sort out there misunderstandings. I really did not want that anybody is pissed off.
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The cause of the problem is that you do not get the same number of points for a game all the time.
My proposal is. Multiple accounts are still allowed. But the empire score is not simply the sum of the players score. The empire should be calculated like a super user. Put all games of all players in a big pot and calculate a new score.
The problem here is the same as for old accounts. Low scores do lower your total score  Thus a newby might not be welcome because he would ruin the empire scores 
Thus there needs to be a calculation method which avoids loosing points by submitting low number games.
A proposal could be: Sort the games decreasing by sccore for each calculation period. At the point were a games starts to lower the score stop calculating and move over to the next period.
Advantage: You can't loose points by submitting a game any more.
What do you think? Any other proposals?
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| Advantage: You can't loose points by submitting a game any more. |
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But a newbie playing beginner won't help the empire by raising the points. So you can't tell them to come in your empire to fight against others empires.
And it would be horrible to explain the empire calculation to newbie. Just look at what happen currently with player score. I don't think that lots of people can explain how it works, why their are some strange behavior or what will be a good submission rate to reach a certain milestone (based on the player's submission records).
  
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| A proposal could be: Sort the games decreasing by sccore for each calculation period. At the point were a games starts to lower the score stop calculating and move over to the next period |
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That is horrible expensive in processing power.
And it will done on each individual submission or each time empire memberships
I think about a much simpler and much fairer rule:
have a restriction when joining an empire. This restriction is that in an empire, no duplicate Serial Id are allowed.
So you can have people that have multiple accounts for testing or Role playing purpose, but we wont have people multiplying account to inflate their empire score.
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Yes, the new empire calculation would penalise empires with a high number of players like The Jedi Republic or the European Alliance. But I still think that it would be more fair.
But it is definitely not harder to explain than the current system. Why do you loose points when you submit a game?
In the current system a newbie should not submit at all since these low scores will slow him down in the long run.
With the new system it would be an additional motivation to get over the empire barrier. And in times of low empire activities even low rates can help.
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Oops, cross over postings
I did not think about calculation costs. It's a few thousand games per day and the amount grows linear. Recalculation needs only to be done in the last period. This does not change to the current model for player scores. Thus a contemporary GHz machine should not have any problems to handle this when it is well done. Most machines are idle most of the times anyway. Even servers mostly wait for I/O devices etc. I personally do develop software which crunches high data volumes. The number crunching itself should not be an issue as far it scales linear or with logarith of the number.
But when it is an issue for Stardock than we need to think about another solution, that's right.
Your proposal has some charme as well.
But there is still the problem that you are penalized for submitting low score games or that you once did submit a low score game. What about an option to remove games from your game list. This way everybody could clean up his records by will.
To avoid misusage the game would be kept in the database but marked as invisible/not to use for calculation.
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I cant keep up with all this lol.... glad we have our best minds sorting this stuff out
  
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| But there is still the problem that you are penalized for submitting low score games or that you once did submit a low score game. |
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You will have always this problem, unless you change the formula for metaverse calculation. And altering the metaverse formula isn't the explored way to avoid duplicate account
| But it is definitely not harder to explain than the current system. Why do you loose points when you submit a game? |
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Well, have you tried to explain it on a real case for people with games on many blocks? Not a really easy task since it involves block movement and aging.
And it would be worse to explain precisely what have really happen the empire have lots of people.
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| The number crunching itself should not be an issue as far it scales linear or with logarith of the number. |
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Well, it must be at least linear since I don't see how you can avoid to look at each game in your proposal
| A proposal could be: Sort the games decreasing by sccore for each calculation period. At the point were a games starts to lower the score stop calculating and move over to the next period. |
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The sort can be logarithm, but the calculation to see if score has decreased or not is at least linear.
More I don't see it to be done easily whereas the current formula (for empire or for calculating score) aren't too complicated with SQL and a relationnal database
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I think that it would be ggreat if the forums part of the the metaverse could be totaly seperate from the scoring part... eg: ask the player when they sign up us they want this new player to be able to submit scores or if its just for use in the forums... that is a non submitting player...
also to cater for players that want to retire a player from the metaverse games submition.. then they could also still be an active member in the forums...
I like this idea cause then the old retired space farers / combat pilots can still be used in the forums to spin yarns of their Great... or not so great conquests and adventures.. like hanging out at a tavern...
I still believe that Only one alias should be activly submitting scores...
If this could be implimnented then it would allow for Retired persona's, Active persona's and non combatant persona's to make like a thriving community... full of live vigour and experience
Thios could also mean that ppl could still be in different empires too... for RPG / participation in the forums..
The Formulas should stay the same... as it does encourage new players ...and keeps the need for active players to remain active to keep their position in the ranking list...
These formula's are what make the metaverse unique as opposed to an everyday ladder.. its one of the reasons i keep playing here
so in actuality one could theoreticly have as many logins as they want... and still stay withing the rules of having one active player submitting scores ...this could also increase the traffic in the forums back to how they were in the old days where ppl used the forums to roleplay.. adding more diversaty to the forums
What do you all think about a solution like this
all it would enail ise an extra field in the players record in the DB telling it that ANY score Submitted by that registered serial no. should go against that particula alias in the metaverse... not much work at all... (apart from redoing the registration page which could list ALL the recorded aliases for that player...
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Sure, my statement was a bit short. I thought it's clear that I mean n x ln(n).
I just meant that it must not be and is not n square or worse. Whereas n x ln(n) is practically the same as linear for high numbers.
I don't know which techniques Stardock uses and which are available. I use SQL only for I/O purpose and do the crunching on the appl server. Thus I'm not an expert for SQL. Yet allone from the pure algorith it should not be a performance problem. But you are right. When they can't do it with their current environment it would be too much effort.
And I guess you couldn't use your Excel sheet anymore
But maybe we should not go too much into details how to do it before there is a consence what to do.
Currently there are two "problems". First you can loose score when you submit a low number game, second you can give empires an advantage by splitting your personality.
Your proposal with one active empire account per serial would be fine with me.
You can have multiple acitive accounts, but only one active in an empire. To please Wombat's whish to let his old account in his old empire but to start over again with a new account in a new empire it should be possible to retire an old player and leave him in the old empire.
Together with the possibility to remove outdated scores manually it would please everyone as far I can tell.
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