I noticed this in the most recent Computer Gaming World, then found a link on the 'net. I guess Free Speech is not quite so free in Germany. Looks like GalCiv could be "warm and fuzzy" enough to withstand the German Government because war is not the only way to win.
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Germany: Federal agency bans "C&G Generals" (in German)
(Chip online) The federal agency that examines products for their harmfulness to young people on Friday confirmed the ban of the computer game "C&C Generals". The game had been banned provisionally following a request by Ulla Schmidt, social-democratic minister for families. Electronic Arts, the company that produces the game, had objected to the ban arguing that the entertainment industry self-regulation body had rated the game as suitable for over-16s. Electronic Arts also argued that the minister had given "partly wrong and incorrect" reasons for banning the game. (12 March 2003)
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The german link:  Link
The source site: Link (which has other scary stuff as well)
 
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#1
by Citizen Sartavos - 5/8/2003 8:17:09 AM
Yeah. Quite a few games have been banned over the last couple years and C&C Gemerals is only one of the more popular titles. Unfortunately, the people who want to "save us" from "harmful" content in computer games and similar media are taking away our freedom to chose what we want to see or play. Events like the massacre in Erfurt a year ago only feed the flames of those who blame computer games for killing sprees and other violent outbursts.
In case you don't know - there was this teenager who showed up in school one day with a gun or rifle and shot several teachers and pupils. Turned out he was a Counterstrike player. Of course this turned into a massive media campaign against violent games of all kinds, especially ego shooters.
Of course we all know that you can still order banned games in Austria or, even easier, download them if you want to.
 
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The "ban" only means that the game cannot be advertised anymore and it can only be sold to adults.
From what I have read about the game nobody is at a great loss anyway if he misses out on that game.
I think it is funny that mostly Americans misunderstand such stories and blame Germany for lack of freedom.
On the other hand very few Americans seem to worry about what freedoms they really have today. Just thinking about Patriot Act 1+2...
America, The land of the free - those times are gone IMHO. But if the people still believe it then that is brilliant marketing.
When we get our own version of the Patriot acts the fun will be over. After all we already got our version of the DMCA. 
       
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Germany is seriously twisted at times. The kind of problems Paradox have had getting HOI sanitised so it would be allowed are quite staggering.
Being aware of history is one thing, but hiding and trying to suppress it is quite another.
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If Paradox had been more clever they would have looked at what happened to previous games (Castle Wolfenstein and Panzer General come to mind). Then they could have easily avoided any trouble.
Actually the opposite of what you say is true. There is a lot of awareness of last centurys history. Anyone who has been to Germany for a while can tell you that.
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#5
by Veteran wampyre - 5/8/2003 9:45:02 AM
I can understand the sensitivity in Germany. But the war DID happen. That cannot be changed. What I dont understand is the harsh treatment of some games on the subject yet other games are left alone...the ones from German publishers. First Strike, BlitzKreig, Panzers etc. What am I missing? BTW, C and C Generals SHOULD be censored or restricted for content: STUPID GAMERPLAY DONE TO DEATH content. And there should be a law that prohibits sale of that game to adults. It should only be sold to dork teenagers.
Just kidding.
Cheers.
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#6
by Veteran wampyre - 5/8/2003 9:45:10 AM
I can understand the sensitivity in Germany. But the war DID happen. That cannot be changed. What I dont understand is the harsh treatment of some games on the subject yet other games are left alone...the ones from German publishers. First Strike, BlitzKreig, Panzers etc. What am I missing? BTW, C and C Generals SHOULD be censored or restricted for content: STUPID GAMERPLAY DONE TO DEATH content. And there should be a law that prohibits sale of that game to adults. It should only be sold to dork teenagers.
Just kidding.
Cheers.
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As was mentioned before sometimes an event like the shooting in Erfurt puts pressure on politicians to do something. They decided to blame video games for this.
I don't know enough about the gameplay in Blitzkrieg. One of the issues with C&C was that you are ordered to attack civilians. Do those other games feature something similar?
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#9
by Veteran wampyre - 5/8/2003 2:46:03 PM
PC games dont kill. Idiots, assholes, thugs, creeps, monsters, and other lower forms of human scum kill. But it is good press for the politicians to "do something" positive by banning games with violence. There, that will stop the killing now, wont it?
Fot the record, I believe C and C is a rotten game...nothing to do with political correctness and all that nonsense. It just stinks. So banning that game is no big deal. Its the bigger picture that worries me.
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Not sure how many other games involve the killing of civilians, but, GTA and Postal come to mind as a couple of the more "base" games if you will. At any rate, I let my 15 yr old play most any game out there. Thus far, he still gets comments on his report cards about his "great citizenship", "excellent class participation", and other comments about how nice and helpful he is, while maintaining grades and conduct that allow him to stay in the National Junior Honor Society. Computer games don't seem to be affecting him in a negative way. WEll, other than serious time losses...hehe. (and so far he seems to have good taste in games  except that I can't get him very interested in GalCiv yet)
At any rate, my opinion is that the level of parental guidance and involvement FROM A VERY EARLY AGE is the most effective means for avoiding the raising of a psycho kid. In my profession, I see too many people who try to control there kids when they start getting in trouble rather than having nurtured appropriate behavior from when they were little. One consistent problem I see in most of these cases is the lack of interest in the kid's life, as well as no sense of proportion in discipline. A glass of spilled milk gets a slap to the head. Driving in a stolen car gets a slap to the head. Getting lost in the store, slap to the head. For some, that translates to, if I'm gonna get whacked, I might as well make it worth it. I have caught 12 year olds driving stolen cars, and know of as young as 9 year olds doing the same thing.
Okay, I'm blah blah blahing again, I know, sorry.  Short version, parents not computer games make psycho kids.
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#11
by Veteran wampyre - 5/8/2003 4:26:26 PM
The problem is you cant legislate good parenting. You CAN puff out your chest and write laws to ban Pc games, or comics or music or whatever else the experts say is causing kids to go bonkers. It gives the ignorant the IMPRESSION that something is being done.And it takes the responsibility off the rotten parents who for whatever reason, shouldnt have children.
Cold I know. But TRUE.
Now, about playing games................
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#12
by Citizen Elrikk - 5/8/2003 4:57:16 PM
Citizen wampyre on 5/8/2003 at 4:26:26 PM said;
/QUOTE ON
The problem is you cant legislate good parenting. You CAN puff out your chest and write laws to ban Pc games, or comics or music or whatever else the experts say is causing kids to go bonkers. It gives the ignorant the IMPRESSION that something is being done.And it takes the responsibility off the rotten parents who for whatever reason, shouldnt have children.
Cold I know. But TRUE.
Now, about playing games................
/QUOTE OFF
Parenting skills can't be the only answer to what I think is a much more complex problem. I doubt if they are even the most important factor.
How else do you explain the siblings who go in totally different directions? ie. one brother becomes an upright member of the community and an other becomes public enemy #1.
Kids are much more individual, from the instant they are born, then many people think.
Every time I hear the expression "You must be so proud." said to a parent when their child accomplishes some great thing I picture him (or her) saying "Yes, but then again his brother is a serial rapist so do I have to take the blame for that too?"
Good and bad kids come from both good and bad homes. (parenting wise)
Tis a puzzlement. 
Elrikk
PS. Oh about games . . . they are great.
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I agree with you on the importance of good parenting.
And to come back to the original topic: There is absolutely so reason why
GalCiv should even come close to being banned in Germany.
Sadly it hasn't even been published here as far as I know. I also have not
seen reviews of the game in the local games magazines.
And now back to the game....
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#14
by Citizen OldOrion - 5/8/2003 5:20:29 PM
I suspect there is a lot of 'self-censorship' going on in the US due to market consideration and the ubiquitous political correctness pressures. doesn't make any difference to me - the result is the same - censorship.
there is this old violence vs. sex battle where extereme violence (esp. towards the 'bad guys') is premissable whereas as much as a nekkid nipple can get you an M rating (and lower your sales).
while I'm critical of censorship, I do draw lines that I personally won't step over. that's why the desire to pour max realism into every game nowdays often freaks me out.
on the other hand, many game's only redeeming features are their shock factor. it's easier to make sellable games (or movies) that way. appeal to the ape in all of us. the first posts on many forums are "How do I enable blood?". the vast majority of modern day fps's fall into that for me.
that's why I still like Blizzard's games, since they always put that 'cartoony' feel in them on purpose... my few cents.
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None of those games are "banned". They are "on the index", which means that they, much like porn in the US, may not be sold or advertised to children below 18. If you are above 18, you can still get it fine.
And no, I don't think that it is appropriate for children to play games where they get teached to use suicide bombers or anthrax rockets.
This has nothing to do with free speech.
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I do beleive the FPS Vietcong was consored heavily in the US Version. Where the EU version is uncut.
The US also said it was unsuitable for its minors.
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#18
by Veteran wampyre - 5/8/2003 9:47:14 PM
Elrikk-some good points but how do you explain the untold millions of people (kids, adults, whatever) that DONT go on killing sprees after playing GTA3 or Postal2?
The point I was trying to make (but obviously failed to) was that the public wants to blame the easy thing on unacceptble behaviour. Now, bad parenting is, I'm sure, not the only factor...but I disagree with you in that I think its an IMPORTANT factor. And in some cases, the overriding factor.
Time to let Bobo out of the cellar as I'm losing it.
Cheers.
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@AIL.ST
I don't think this applies when you order directly from Stardock. They are not in German legislation and don't need to care about this new law.
And I don't think that you can't be blamed either because the one who make the restricted stuff available to kids is the one who violates the law. But IANAL.
@BigBadger
How are Empire scores calculated? If they do averages then your are better off if I don't join your empire.
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