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Do you still think GalCiv 1 is fun even with GalCiv II out?
758 votes
1- Yes
2- No


Computer AI
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by Citizen Captain_Chaos - 3/28/2003 8:10:23 PM

Does anyone know whether choosing a more sophisticated AI level enables the computer to cheat more by either uping its production (like in CIV 2/3 where greater AI just means the computer produces units faster) or permits it to see more of the map or something.

In other words, is its AI, really increased playing ability?

Thanks!

       
#1  by Veteran azakain - 3/28/2003 8:15:53 PM

Yes, it really increases playing ability. It's a very slick AI code (6 different ones in fact), though there are a few little bugs here and there that I'm sure will be fixed as soon as possible

The only bonuses the AI gets is the equivalent of Stellar Cartography without actually having the tech. It gets this at all intelligence levels.

I BELIEVE on Impossible difficulty (all AI at genius I think...) they get a slight boost to production just to give it a little extra challenge. At least I think I remember reading that somewhere...



        Posted via Stardock Central
#2  by Veteran Mythor - 3/28/2003 8:31:09 PM

Yeah, at the very highest levels it does receive a bonus. At lower levels (below, I believe, "Intelligent") it's handicapped slightly, but otherwise it plays by the same rules.



          Posted via Stardock Central
#3  by Veteran Stevious - 3/28/2003 8:42:26 PM

Frogboy had posted exactly what the differences (production bonuses and whatnot) in each level of the AI intelligence not too long ago. I searched this forum in vain, but was unable to find it. I suspect it's "dropped off". Anyway to get that reposted, or added to the Encyclopedia section? I'd really like to look over that again given the chance.



        Posted via Stardock Central
#4  by Citizen Captain_Chaos - 3/29/2003 2:42:19 AM

First, thanks very much for the answers!

Second, I am brand new to the game, and don't yet know what Star Cartography is. Does that mean the computer always knows where your units are and what the map looks like? (I hope not. When I read reviews about this revolutionary AI, I was really hoping the computer wouldn't cheat to stay ahead...)

Third, I am glad to hear that! I always wanted to play a game where my computer opponents "think" better at higher levels not cheat with production bonuses! I hope we can find that list of bonuses it gets at the highest levels...

Thanks again!

       
#5  by Citizen Frank Baumer - 3/29/2003 4:15:33 AM

Technology SummaryResearch Cost = 100This technology will allow us to distinguish yellow stars from other colored stars on the mini map.

Description

Thanks to improved instrumentation, we can now better tell which nearby stars are likely to have inhabitable planets. Promising stars now show up with a lighter gray on the mini map.


http://webpages.charter.net/trevorpowdrell/140.htm Link

The bonus is +5% economy bonus on the second highest level and +40% economy bonus on the highest level. It's intelligence is better thanks to more programming (at least that's what I've read on this board ).

#6  by Citizen Captain_Chaos - 3/29/2003 5:21:43 AM

Thanks again.

So, is there a way to make it "think" the most intelligently without adding in "cheats"?

In other words, the computer AI tends to think better at higher levels of AI. Yet, you say it also gets bonuses for the top 2 AI levels. Does it think as well at the top third AI level as it does at the very top AI, but without the cheat bonuses? THANKS!




       
#7  by Diplomat Louis-guy reid - 3/29/2003 7:25:58 AM

Here is a report of Brad's comments on intelligence

Intelligence

One of the things we did do during the release candidates is make the game much easier to win on the lower levels. We found that experienced strategy gamers would get creamed even when the AI was set to "fool".

But at the same time, at the medium to higher levels, the AI is much more intelligent than it was in the betas. In fact, the beta GalCiv AI was, well pretty crummy compared to the gold version in terms of intelligence (not saying the gold is "harder" to beat, but that the AI is more intelligent in how it behaves).

In the betas, each AI level simply increased the intelligence rating of the player by say 15 points. Here's the problem we had with that:

You'd play on "normal" and get a challenge and then you'd up it a level and get creamed. So a lot of the extra month of development was spend play testing and adding more difficulty levels.

So now each computer player can indvidually be set to the following difficulty levels:

[IntLevel0] 4 Fool
[IntLevel1] 14 Beginner
[IntLevel2] 36 Sub-Normal
[IntLevel3] 42 Normal
[IntLevel4] 50 Bright
[IntLevel5] 60 Intelligent
[IntLevel6] 65 Genius
[IntLevel7] 100 Incredible

With the corresponding intelligence being 4, 14, 36, 42, 50, 60, 65, 100.

We may tweak these or add more after released based on what you guys say.

So now, you have sub-normal, normal, bright, intelligent and genius quite close together. I have not personally won with all the AI's set to genius on a medium sized map or higher. And incredible is just, well the AI gets lots of extra stuff.

Speaking of extra stuff, how do the resources get handled?

The intelligence ratings do two things: 1) They determine how much money they get from colonies.

So in pColony->CalcTaxesCollected() at the end it gets:
ulTaxes = ulTaxes * (40 + ulIntelligence);

So at intelligence = 60 (intelligent) it's getting the same from a colony as you. At Genius it's getting a bit more. And at incredible, all bets are off.

The other way intelligence matters is that it determines whether the AI is going to a) Do a thorough analysis on what players are doing b) Which AI scripts are available to use, and c) Determines whether the AI is going to do anything about it.

Example:
An AI with intelligence 60 will be able to check out its sensor areas and see if you are building up for an attack, fortifying starbases, trying to culturally dominate it, etc. It will then have to roll to see if it is going to do anything about it. I.e. "Do I recognize this as a threat or am I too dumb to see this?". If it rolls that it is going to recognize the threat then it has to roll whether it's goign to actually do anything about it. And if it is going to do something about it then it rolls to see if it will tell the human player about it (if it's a human player that is the threat).

IF the AI FAILS the roll, the human player gets a message from the AI letting it know it's on to what it's doing. Otherwise it quietly lowers relations and prepares for a war.

If you play on say Genius, and build up star bases and ships in a sector you're planning to attack you'll notice ships from other sectors quietly coming in to fortify. Fighters shadowing your transports. Etc.

But on lower intelligence levels, none of this happens. Which is one of the changes. So when you get the game, on Fool and Beginner you should be able to play the game without getting creamed now. This is different than it was in the beta when fool was = Int 15 and the next one up was 30.

by Avatar Frogboy - 3/5/2003 4:02:14 PM



             Posted via Stardock Central
#8  by Veteran Stevious - 3/29/2003 8:31:20 AM

Thank you, Louis-guy reid. This was exactly what I was looking for. So if I'm reading this correctly, the AI only gets production bonuses at Genius or higher. Considering that Brad himself, who designed the AI was beaten a couple of times with the AI levels set to Normal and/or Bright in his gameplay examples (sorry Brad ), you'll have plenty of challenges playing the lower levels before you're even ready to go for Genius. In my own second game playing against Sub-Normal aliens, I'm already seeing a huge difference from Beginner.

On a side note, I posted my first game's score to the Metaverse - 113 points. Watch out, Louis-guy reid I'm coming for ya!



        Posted via Stardock Central
#9  by Diplomat Louis-guy reid - 3/29/2003 9:14:55 AM

The learning curve for this game is steep, and I sure the metaverse will ne very different once new players have learned the game dynamics. Good luck



             Posted via Stardock Central
#10  by Citizen Captain_Chaos - 3/29/2003 10:35:30 AM

First, thanks so much for that analysis! I have been looking for an intelligent computer component forever.

I don't suppose there is anyway to keep the computer at genius but disable the economic bonuses it gets, is there? If anyone knows I would be extremely grateful. It seems you still can't play with a genius computer that doesn't cheat (if I understood the above analysis correctly...)

       
#11  by Diplomat Louis-guy reid - 3/29/2003 2:40:08 PM

I would'nt say the AI gets additional points, i see it more like it is playing at a percentage of it's potential.




             Posted via Stardock Central
#12  by Citizen Ardrikk - 3/29/2003 3:18:17 PM

Captain Chaos:

If you play against "Intelligent" AI, the computer is playing at its most intelligent level (it gets to use all the AI scripts and such) and it's not getting any kind of production bonuses or penalties.

Higher than "Intelligent," if I understand correctly, it's still playing at its most intelligent level *and* it's now getting some production bonuses on top of that.

So if you want to play against the smartest computer that doesn't cheat, just play Intelligent. If you find you want a more difficult opponent, give yourself some handicaps by letting the computer have some bonuses.



         Posted via Stardock Central
#13  by Diplomat Dearmad - 1/3/2004 1:37:18 PM

-bump-

basically in my other thread I was wondering if Brad's numbers were still accurate in the post above in this thread or if anything had changed since?
[Message Edited]

                    
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